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Colleen Gallagher: Welcome everyone to this episode of Recruiters on the Rise. I'm really excited to have our guest with me today. She's a seasoned recruiting leader who has spent more than 15 years helping technology companies build teams that drive innovation and long-term growth. Um, she has a very rare ability to zoom out and see hiring as a system, not just filling seats, but thinking deeply about how companies find, grow and hold on to great people, which is especially needed in today's market. started her career as a partner at an executive search firm where she worked with some of the most influential tech companies during pivotal moments of growth. She then joined eBay, where she helped build the leadership team behind their payments platform following the separation from PayPal, which had to support, uh. A system of over a hundred billion dollars in transaction volume, which blows my mind. Um, I think, uh, most notably, someone who knows her well, described her to me as someone who gets shit done with thoughtfulness and quality that makes everything around her better. And I think that says it all. She currently serves as the director head of global Recruiting at LiveRamp. Natalie Fink, welcome to the show.
Natalie Fink: Hi Colleen. Thanks so much for having me.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. I'm so glad you could be here. Um, all right, so let's dive right in. My first question for you is, what's the one thing or one action that sets the best recruiters apart from the rest?
Natalie Fink: You know, it's sort of twofold. Um, it's curiosity and business acumen, and they definitely go hand in hand. The best recruiters don't just understand hiring, um, but they understand the business that they're hiring for, so they understand the company's customers, how revenue's generated, what the company actually does, and what challenges the organization is trying to solve.
Uh, when recruiters really understand those things deeply, they can assess more than just, the candidates and moving them through the process, they can actually assess whether someone's past experience will really translate into success. In the new environment. Yeah. And when, when they don't already know the business, that curiosity gets them through, right?
So you have to have both the business acumen to understand it and the curiosity to go in and figure it out when they don't understand it.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. I mean, that resonates so much because we hear a lot that, um. There can be disconnects between a hiring manager in terms of what their expectations are and what a recruiter is looking for. And that can often not show up until later in the recruiting process. But if you have somebody who can really dig in and figure that out early on, um, and who knows, You know, why the role is important and, and, um, what are the things that you really need out of the role?
From the hiring manager's perspective, it feels like it can be so critical in making sure you don't waste time.
Natalie Fink: Absolutely.
Colleen Gallagher: how do you hire for people on your team that, um, You know, being in talent acquisition, sometimes it can be hard to, to recognize those things. So like how do you think about that when you're hiring a recruiter?
Natalie Fink: Yeah. Um, I mean, I'm looking for people who can tell me in depth what their company does. Um, that's one of the first things I ask them about. Give me their elevator pitch on their current company. Um, and then if they can translate that for me in, um, in a. Short elevator pitch, then it's, um, it's usually a good indicator.
Um, but I'll also ask questions like, how does your business make money? Um, who are the customers they served? What's the compat competitive landscape look like? That should be stuff they should know off the cuff.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah. um, I guess conversely, what do you think holds recruiters back from being successful?
Natalie Fink: looking to just kind of maximize the funnel. So when they're just trying to fill the bottom of the pipe or they're just focused on the top of the pipe or the bottom of the pipe, um, then they, it can become like a system for them and they're not really looking at the people individually and thinking about the outcomes that they're trying to drive. Yeah. so When recruiters get attached to one candidate and they only want that candidate to go through, or conversely win. Recruiters only focus on, say, sourcing or reviewing resumes, and they don't think about how to treat somebody throughout the process. I think that can be a real, um, challenge point. Yeah. Um, and then ultimately it's also a level of frustration tolerance, right?
There's a certain amount of frustration that comes with recruiting because it's one of the few. Products that you can buy or sell that has its own ability to say no at the end of the process. Um, You know, it's sort of like real estate in a weird way where it's a double-sided product. Um, and uh, And so being able to be resilient through the challenges that come with human beings who have personal events happen in their life that take them out of the game.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah. What are some ways that you try and think about like candidate experience, um, like as you've, You know, you've had experiences where you've built, You know, both at eBay and Unity, where you've really scaled out an organization. So like how do you focus that around the growth balance that with the growth the company needs and the, and the realities around like candidate experience.
Natalie Fink: Yeah, I mean it's certainly everyone can get it wrong from time to time, but hopefully you're getting it right more often than not. Um, one thing that I'm really diligent about is, um. Not ghosting candidates, right? We can't, we can't do that. Um, it, it feels awful. We've all been on the wrong side of it. Um, so I try to hold my recruiters to a five day turnaround, which means, um, that we have metrics in place that I'm, that I'm watching very closely of how long a candidate sits in the new candidate bucket, um, or the recruiter screen bucket.
And I want people to. Move through those within five days. Um, that really gives me some, some hope that they're getting that feedback relatively quickly when we can do that. Another thing on candidate experience is, You know, just making sure that you're actually giving them some kind of meaningful preparation before they go into an onsite round.
Um, and then following up with them fairly quickly afterwards just to hear their thoughts, right? They're investing a fair amount of time when you're talking about an onsite round. Um, and we want to help them be successful. Give them some coaching on what the people they're gonna meet are like, yeah. Um, and uh, and what kinds of conversations they're gonna be expected to have.
And then just hear their thoughts afterwards. And I think that that really starts to build the relationship that sets you up for the next stage, which of course is compensation negotiation.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. that's such a great point. I hear, um, especially in today's market where you have sort of a, You know, a, a flood of candidates at least is, is how it's described. Um, and I, You know, I know folks who have been through recruiting processes and they've spent a ton of time and they don't hear anything from the company and it's such a negative experience, and I. You know, think a lot about that working with recruiters and, You know, I genuinely believe none of them want that to be the candidate experience. It's just about like the level of work and workload and everything that they have on their own plate.
Natalie Fink: And we have the tools. Now, that's the thing is sometimes you finish a, uh, a screening call and you immediately know, oh, I'm not gonna hire that person, or I'm not gonna move them forward. Uh, but most of our tools today have a delayed feedback send. Um, and that feature allows us to put the feedback in right when we're thinking about it, move on to our next task, and have the feedback go out, You know, 48 hours later.
So that really, really helps.
Colleen Gallagher: How do you think about the types of feedback that you share with candidates?
Natalie Fink: Sure. Um, I mean, the depth of the feedback is gonna depend on the depth of the interview process. Um, generally if they're just getting a recruiter screen and they're, they're, they're not a fit, I'm gonna keep it fairly high level.
Yeah. I. I rarely go into depth at that, at that stage. Yeah. We're talking about someone who's invested a fair amount of time in an onsite or a couple of onsite rounds, um, I'm probably gonna give them some detail about what it was the team was challenged by, or what they challenged that this person would be able to complete. Um, I try to keep it positive, so, um, meaning. Talking about the gaps that were identified and where there were other candidates that maybe met those gaps better. Yeah. Um, and uh, and if I have the ability to, I give them like a, a way that I think they can improve their interviewing for the next time doesn't always work out perfectly, but, um, but that's what I strive to give when I get feedback.
Colleen Gallagher: Um, I guess going back to your experience like around scaling, Say a little bit more about your process, like what has made you successful in doing this in a number of organizations? Like how do you approach it as a, as a process when you come in? Like what's the most important thing to you to get Right.
Natalie Fink: Sure. Um, I mean, I think that. In scaling an organization, you need to get, um, strong leaders in early in the process. And those leaders need to be enabled to make decisions, right? Decisive organizations can move fast and indecisive organizations cannot. Um. So like, as an example at eBay, um, I, I joined right after they split from PayPal and we had two years, uh, to build a payments platform that could process this huge amount of gross revenue.
Um, so we, I was actually, my first day was the first day for the new VP of. And we hired her like core direct reports. We sat down on day one and mapped out what she wanted her org to look like with her HRBP and myself. And we hired her first three very quickly. And then, um, from there we were able to use network and referral based because, when you're trying to hire very quickly at a very senior, senior level, people in the same networks. So a lot of network hiring and we did a lot of sourcing, um, of passive candidates as well. Um, And so it was just. Going layer by layer, building out the teams, and you get so much momentum as you go through those layers, um, because each person that you bring in probably knows another five to 10 people that might value. Yeah. So it help you scale really quickly in that environment.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah, mean, what I heard you talking about there too is like really building, um, with the folks that you're supporting. And I'm curious how you think about like TA's reputation internally and, and the importance of that, um, particularly with the executive team or leadership.
Natalie Fink: TA can be really different depending on the kind of organization that you're at, mm-hmm. , If you are at a company for instance, that does manufacturing or a company that is, um, has a lot of field employees, for instance, um, sometimes it is a much more transactional role within the technology industry, though it really becomes more of a talent advisor because yeah. Highly skilled workers, um, who are. Uh, in a competitive job market where their skills are valued. And, And so the advisory part of that becomes here are some recommendations I can make about what we might do to have an advantage against our competitors, what we might do to get recognized or where we might market this job. As, as well as, You know, hey, this is gonna be a, a really tough compensation environment, so I'm sure most recruiters out there know, but like if you're hiring an AI engineer or a machine learning engineer today.
It's, uh, it's extremely competitive and the compensation, um, component can be wild because you've got mega corporations like Google and Meta who are able to pay, um, much higher than what, uh, a mid-size, um, uh, enterprise can pay.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. there any, are there things that you're seeing that, beyond comp, that you feel like are making a difference for candidates?
Natalie Fink: Yeah, it's definitely about the personal relationships. So the hiring manager and the recruiter, spending time getting to know the candidate, understanding their motivation, makes all the difference. Um, when you're, uh. When you're talking about the job, You know, giving them the insight into what kind of impact it can have, because people want to do things that they can put their name on and that they can be proud of in their, in their career journey.
And so when you can really paint a great picture of what impact they're gonna have, yeah. You can engage people and hook them. And the, the compensation becomes a lot more of an afterthought.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah, totally. I, I wonder too, like, in that conversation, just given that the hiring managers and that relationship, both with the recruiter and the hiring manager become so important, like what do you see hiring managers getting wrong about recruiting and like, what are some things that you found to build on that relationship and make it successful?
Natalie Fink: I think hiring managers, um. Different skill sets, right? We've all got different skill sets, but some of them can be overly cautious about making a decision, positive or negative, and they can. I think the, the way that they deal with that decision anxiety can sometimes be, Hey, let me just see more candidates without making a decision.
And as I talked about earlier with candidate experience, I really like to have prompt feedback, um, and, and guidance for a candidate, uh, and in a process. So when a hiring manager. Says, well, let's just hold on that person and then, and see some more candidates. Um, You know, I definitely do my best to coach them that I think for the candidate's perspective, we need to have some level of transparency here.
So. Even if we're not completely transparent that hey, we're gonna go look at more candidates. We can say something along the lines of, we think you've got a really good fit, but we're struggling internally with some of the decisions about what it is we want the role to do and how that would, how that would factor into what the person will look like.
So give us X amount of time and we'll come back to you. That's a way where you can be somewhat transparent, but also, Giving them expectation that you can yourself.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah. that feels like a really, You know. Important aspect as a candidate too, because to your point, the alternative is often you just don't hear anything for a couple of weeks and then that really, um, turns people away. And, You know, I was at, um, transform earlier this week and um, with some of my colleagues and one of the things that, some folks were talking about was, interviewing is your employer brand. Um. And curious how that lands with you, um, and how you think about that as part of your process.
Natalie Fink: I mean, yeah, it's, it's, um, it absolutely is. How we interview is how candidates know us and our employer brand is really shaped around, um, the experience people have when they interview with us.
Colleen Gallagher: yeah. I mean, You know, one of the, I think one of the points somebody made was to the effect of. Generally when you're, You know, when someone's trying to hire you, they're probably gonna treat you the best. And so it's just an indication of like, internal and maybe, maybe you get treated a little bit, I don't wanna say worse, but Right.
You're not getting, it's not as high touch and, and it's not a sales process, like you said earlier, like you're buying a, uh, like a two-sided choice, like when you buy real estate. But, I just thought that was an interesting way to frame it that I had never really thought about before, which is like, people somewhat expect that once you get into the company, you're gonna, your experience should be slightly less positive.
And so if you have a negative experience during an interview, that can be a thing that really turns people off right away, even in this job environment.
Natalie Fink: Yeah. Um, I mean, absolutely. I think I. I think I, early in my career, um, had an experience where someone told me that I had reached out to them and I hadn't res replied back, and I didn't realize that I had done it. Um, but it made me really focus on that piece because they took the time to give me that feedback.
Um, but not everyone's gonna get that opportunity and to, to write it like I was able to tell them why I didn't respond. It had. Something like you said, like we decided to go with an internal, and I didn't turn off every candidate as in a timely fashion. But it is about helping everyone in the process see that that is gonna help you strengthen your employer brand.
Um, and, uh, look, there's, there's, um. If there's no shortage of chances to make a mistake, yeah. So we just have to do our very best every chance that we get.
Colleen Gallagher: I know a lot of, uh, a lot of folks in talent acquisition right now are talking about the fact that, um. You know, we're in sort of a different time in terms of the job market and you're seeing a lot of inbound interest, um, in roles. And so I'm curious like how you and your team are handling that.
If there's any or anything that you're using to help with, with getting through, um, that, and, just how that is, is shaking out for you all.
Natalie Fink: Absolutely. So I'm a huge proponent of sourcing. I think passive candidates make the strongest candidates for a variety of reasons. Um, so I still advocate for sourcing, but given the macro economics of where we are, where we're being asked to do more with less, uh, recruiters have higher workloads, um, than.
We and the fact that the job market has been poor for several years, we are seeing these huge application pools. So one thing that our team has implemented is, um, a tool called gem. And you probably know Gem for its candidate management systems. But they also have an AI ranking tool that, um, that takes applications and helps you to identify which ones have the strongest fit to the job description.
So that's something that we've, um, recently implemented and we're just getting the hang of it. Now, don't, I don't have a real review, but we're hoping it makes a big difference.
Colleen Gallagher: Do you, um, do you have a sense percentage wise? Like what, um. Proportion of your hires are coming from inbound versus outbound.
Natalie Fink: I don't today. Yeah. I know that in the past I had a really interesting stat that I, um, that I repeated several times, which is, um. I looked at like three years of hiring and applicants had a one in 1200 chance of getting hired, whereas source candidates had a one in 15 chance of getting hired. Yeah. Tells you that there's a huge quality difference between sourced and applicants.
Colleen Gallagher: Wow, that's, that's much larger than I would've expected in some. I'm curious how you think about the ROI on either tools or just Investments that you're looking to make. Obviously there are a lot of things going on in the market and even what you just talked about with, um, some of the candidate review, like how are you, how are you talking internally and, You know, what would you, what advice would you have for anyone listening who's trying to make a case for getting spend in the talent acquisition stack, which I think has been pretty squeezed over the last couple of years.
Natalie Fink: today we just see so much ai, right? Um, and every tool you look at says it's got ai, but let's look at solving meaningful problems. So I can tell you some of the most challenging problems that we face are, um, You know, around. Getting engagement from hiring teams. So that's why Lavalier, which is the product, um, that, that you guys released recently, has been so intriguing and we've been testing it out.
Um, uh, because getting that, getting that fast decision making does everything for candidate experience, um, and win. Hiring managers and interviewers don't have to put a lot of labor into making their reviews. Um, then, then everybody wins. The candidate wins because they get fast and thoughtful feedback.
The hiring manager wins because their candidate stay engaged and the company wins because their brand is really improved.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah, we're, we're excited about it as well and I appreciate you perfect. Giving us some really, um. Good and, and workable feedback on it. Um, my last sort of question about what you're seeing in the market is how are you thinking about hiring in, in this age of ai? know, we're hearing a lot about, hiring for things like ability to deal with ambiguity or and like, have you seen that come through in terms of how you talk about roles. Publicly in your job descriptions or like, how are you, these are sort of those mosier skills that, um, that are harder to define based on what people have done in terms of their experience. So how do you think about evaluating people on those things and looking for people who have that type of, um, You know, resiliency, I guess.
Natalie Fink: Yeah. Um, it's a great question and there's a ton of different ways to assess for it, right? So when you're talking about an engineer, um, we have some, some testing that like is their coding testing. But now we have AI helpers built into that coast coding test because we realize that every developer is going to have AI at their fingertips, right?
Um, but. One of the things that I've been peppering into my interview screens recently is, um, tell me about the most recent a agentic, um, process that you built or workflow that you've built. Uh huh. Um, and if candidates stumble on that, then it, it kind of gives me, um, a bit of an orange flag that maybe they aren't using, um, any, they're not building out their own agents.
Um, and, And so that's one thing I've been looking at lately.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah, that's a really good, good question to di dissect that, You know, I think what I see a lot of is, um, to your point, like, everyone wants people to be using ai, but what's, what's the thought process behind it? So, um, You know, doing some screen share, even if people see that you're using Claude to CLO code to help you write it.
Well, You know, I know when I use Claude. I'm sure everyone else, You know, there was something I did yesterday. I wasn't using Claude Code, but just Claude Cowork, where I had to go back with it about four or five times. And I think like the only reason we got to where we got to was we like, like I'm saying, Claude and me are a team. Um, we, the only reason we got to where we got to was because I kept sort of going back and saying like, oh, I don't think that's right. You know?
Natalie Fink: Hundred percent the, the, the, the agents and the, the, You know, all of the different tools that we are lucky enough to have access to. They need us to really point them properly. Right. It's like, um, you're only getting out what you're putting in, I guess. So I, I think that there's a lot of, um, human judgment that goes into building it. Yeah. Making sure that you're hiring people who have that excellent judgment and who can persevere through poor results.
Colleen Gallagher: okay, so I wanna, I wanna shift a little bit, learn a little bit more about you, um, and how you, You know, got to where you are. And so the, the question I like to ask is, if you could meet yourself a few days after graduating from college, um, before you started your career, like what advice would you give yourself?
Natalie Fink: I mean, recruiting's a funny one, right? Most people don't. Go into college and say, I wanna be a recruiter when I get outta college. Um, I have a funny story about when I was just finishing college. Um, I was a really serious student. I was involved in student government and I remember the last week after like right around exams, um, I walked into my advisor's office and I was just totally, um.
At a loss for what I wanted to do. I, I graduated with a, a major in anthropology and I wanted her to tell me what job I should take. Um, You know, I wanted a clear plan and, um. She, You know, she gave me, uh, a line from a poem by, uh, Rainier Maria, and I'm probably mispronouncing it. Um, but it stayed with me ever since.
So the idea was something, um, that sometimes in life you really don't need to have the answers yet. You need to live the questions. Over time and the answer will reveal itself through your experience and for me. Um, You know, anthropology, I looked at it as like, um, a way to enter social work. And I did do some social work early in my career, but I found that I wasn't using.
My analytical side of my brain that I was also really in touch with. It was much more on the, um, nurturing side. Mm-hmm. Recruiting is this really cool way where I can use both parts of that, right? My analytical part as well as my really human side. Yeah, that was my, that was the right answer for me. But it's, uh, everyone's gotta live their question.
Colleen Gallagher: So how did you get into recruiting? What, what led you down this path?
Natalie Fink: You know, uh, after social work I was looking for something that still had a lot of, um, people interaction, and a friend of mine was doing recruiting and, You know, that's, that's how the story goes.
Colleen Gallagher: And the rest is history. Yeah. Um, well you're a self-described gadget geek, and I'm curious, like what's the, what's something fun or new that you've, you've looked into or invested in lately and did it live up to its type?
Natalie Fink: Yeah. Um, my latest investment is a remarkable, um, are you familiar with these?
It's, uh, where you can write it out and it,
yeah. It's like a writing pad that, that is, it captures into an app that's on your computer or your phone. Um, it hasn't lived up to its hype to be completely frank.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. I've had, I had, I didn't have a remarkable, but I had one of the competitors it's, it was okay.
Natalie Fink: Yeah, I wish that it fall record and transcribe for me. Yeah. So then the next thing I've been looking at the little, um, AI note taker. You know, some of them look like a credit card or like a little
Colleen Gallagher: Oh yeah,
Natalie Fink: microphone or what have you, and wondering if I should get one of those. But I try to keep my, uh, my gadget. Um, investments to, You know, like twice a year because I could, I could certainly become a person who overdoses on gadgets.
Colleen Gallagher: what do you do for fun outside of work besides look at gadgets.
Natalie Fink: I've got two kids, uh, an 8-year-old, actually his birthday's today and a, a 11-year-old daughter. Um, so a lot of running around with, with family. Um.
Colleen Gallagher: That's crime carpool, uh, driver age, right? Like yeah, you're their transportation coordinator.
Natalie Fink: absolutely. And um, I live in Marin, so we definitely get out and enjoy the hiking. Um, it's, it's really beautiful around, around the area.
Colleen Gallagher: like in the eighties, which is crazy for, for this time of year.
alright. I have a couple of like hot takes, lightning round style questions for you. Um, candidate thank yous, are they required? Nice to have. Don't bother. How do you feel about them?
Natalie Fink: Those, some people have such strong opinions, I don't care about them. Um, but hiring managers do so. I say send them because they're never gonna give you a ding for, for a thank you note.
Colleen Gallagher: yeah, yeah. That's funny. I do think. Recruiters tend to sort of, um, agnostic about them, but it does feel like some hiring managers will like to see it as a, as a reflection of interest. So that makes a lot of sense. Um, what about resumes? Do you think resumes are dying?
Natalie Fink: They, they, they may not be dead. Um, I think, You know. I would hate to say that they're dying because that would mean that LinkedIn is gonna continue to dominate. And while LinkedIn is an amazing platform, I don't like that, that they're a single point of failure. Yeah. Um, and, uh, And so I think people should maintain resumes. Uh, yeah. Maybe they're not as formal as they once were.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. I mean, I remember coming out of college, like when I was doing, You know, all the on-campus interviewing and You know, like I remember going to the bookstore and buying like high quality resume paper to print my resume on, and you really cared about formatting. And I was reading something yesterday and it was talking about how like, don't do any of the fancy formatting because it doesn't, You know. Don't actually make it as simple as possible because you just need it to, You know, like you were talking earlier about like people are doing skills matching and, and keyword searches and things like that. Um, And so tend to agree with you, I can't, You know, I, I, it is a good way for folks to still communicate what You know, what their experiences are and what their talent is.
And I just don't think. People do that as holistically on LinkedIn. So I think you also miss, um, some important things as a candidate if you don't have the opportunity to have a more robust summary of, of yourself and your experiences and your skills. So
Natalie Fink: Yeah, absolutely. I think also, You know, it can be a way where you can, you can have some teaser information on your LinkedIn and then have the full detail on your resume.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Yeah. I know when I'm interviewing people, I often look at LinkedIn and then go to the resume 'cause I'm like, I just need a little bit, I need to know a little bit more about what that means right now. AI screening, what do you think about that? I, it doesn't sound like you all are using it, but thoughts on it.
Natalie Fink: We're not, um. I have considered it certainly. Uh, I just went to a conference recently where, um, a head of TA was talking about, they did a six week trial of doing AI interviewing mm-hmm. Uh, You know, she had a lot of learnings. It was a great white paper she had put together. And, um, it made me more open to considering it, but I would be really picky about what roles we chose to do it.
So I would think that early career roles are probably more well suited for AI screening and more senior roles might, might, might not. Um, especially given, You know, certain jobs that are so hard to recruit for, like we're talking about. Um, I would hate to. A candidate because of a negative experience from a, a bot.
Right?
Colleen Gallagher: I'm curious, was the use case primarily for doing the initial screening?
Natalie Fink: It was, yeah.
Colleen Gallagher: And was the thought that you could get more people into a screening to like have a more robust profile versus like, I, I don't necessarily see it. I think there's some, know, I hear some chatter around like, this is, people are trying to replace recruiters and I actually think it's less about that and more about. Getting more insight into everyone who You know, because the volume is so high, it's very hard to have a human. It's unrealistic for a human to be able to screen 800 people a day.
Natalie Fink: Yeah, that's, that was the whole, um, pain point they were trying to solve for is with such high applicant flows, yeah. Can we. Do justice to our candidates, how can we know that, um, that we're reaching that, that we're reviewing and, um, every candidate fairly. And so they said that they definitely found through their process, and I'll have to. Ping you the, um, the white paper she wrote, so you can include it yeah. Afterward here. but they definitely found that, um, that there were candidates they wouldn't have had time to review who turned out to be strong, um, but that it also did have some negative consequences. Some candidates didn't wanna engage, um, And so there were some missed opportunities as well.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah, I'd love to read that. And we will put that in the show notes for our listeners as well. Well, um, thank you so much for doing this. Where can people find you? Is there a good way to connect?
Natalie Fink: Find me on LinkedIn.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah, it's where recruiters and, and, and talent acquisition professionals tend to tend to hang out.
So, always, always a good place. Just Natalie Fink, right?
Natalie Fink: Natalie Fink. I think it's uh, yeah, easy to find.
Colleen Gallagher: Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you again for joining me. This has been, know, I love learning more about the, You know, everything that you're thinking about as a talent leader and you shared some really great information for folks, um, to use in their organizations as well, especially with. of the issues facing folks right now in terms of high volume and, um, just growing recruiting functions to be, um, successful talent partners with the organization. So, thank you for everyone who's listening. If you learn something today or left, tell somebody about this podcast. Thank you again, Natalie, uh, for being here.
Natalie Fink: Thank you so much, Colleen. Really appreciate you.
Colleen Gallagher: Well, this has been another exciting episode of Recruiters on the Rise. we'll see you all next time.
